broadlybrazen:

booasaur:

black-nata:

so you’re telling me y’all are willing to watch TEN SEASONS of a show that barely passes the bechdel test, has minimal to none poc representation, zero disabled representation, and the only gay representation you get is when the two hetero male protagonists stare at each other for 5 seconds…

yet you’re eager to shit on agent carter for only having passed three of those things on the FIRST FOUR EPISODES OF ITS ENTIRE EXISTENCE??

But…who is saying they’d rather watch Supernatural over Agent Carter?

Is there really that much overlap between the Supernatural fanbase and those calling out Agent Carter? Some, maybe, after all on one hand you have a show that started 10 years ago when the TV landscape was completely different. But as some of the fans matured and learned enough to point out where AC was lacking, they certainly understood enough to criticize Supernatural too. And the overlap isn’t really that large? Call out the base of the white men slash ships if you want, but those aren’t the WoC who’re suddenly bearing the brunt of AC’s failure.

Man, I don’t understand how it’s come to this. Like, you want people to watch a show, okay. It’s better than a lot of what’s out there, true. But it is accurate to say it’s kinda white. Now, never ever has that been the reason for a show’s failure, either in ratings or as a network project. But in an era where we have Scandal, HTGAWM, Sleepy Hollow, Elementary, and Empire, when AC is getting the relentless sexism against white women so right, it IS kind of a bizarre choice, and a hurtful one, too, right? They’re aware of the issues, it’s obvious that diversity in shows is not damaging ratings, but they go ahead with this casting? Still, it’s something we’re all used to, so while it may not be that high on our list of things to watch, most WoC not already watching were like, yeah, I’ll get to it, or nah, I personally won’t watch ‘cause of this, because I think it could have done better. There wasn’t any concerted effort to boycott or punish it in any way, only to bring attention to the fact that we wanted it to do better, when its feminist cred was touted.

Then of course the response to that, chief among them Tamora Pierce’s now infamous “blacks in service or no blacks at all“ post, which, again, wow, but her ignorance really does serve as the best example and reason for why this representation is crucial. There was a flurry of shocked replies, with whole lists of counterexamples of real life PoC in significant roles, as well as wondering for this need for attention to the hyperrealism in a show focusing on a highranking female agent whose boyfriend was injected with super serum. But suddenly, because of those posts, WoC were seen as boycotting the series, and somehow responsible for the death of female-led Marvel projects? Come on now.

lmao literally everyone who’s saying they have better shows to watch are talking about shows with diverse casts & leading ladies 

show me ONE PERSON who articulated problems with Agent Carter’s whiteness & then went on to say they’re going to watch another super-white, super-dudecentric show instead? people are scoffing because we have shows like Jane the Virgin, and Brooklyn 99, and How To Get Away With Murder; we have women of color as leading ladies! we exist in those shows, we’re not an afterthought. 

we’ve been asked to settle for AC, we’ve been asked to wait for AC. but in the current market, we don’t need to settle, and we don’t need to wait.

instead of acknowledging that diversity exists (and gets awesome ratings!), people are gonna pretend that fans of color in particular prefer white dudes to AC??? really??? that’s what we’re doing now?

broadlybrazen:

booasaur:

black-nata:

so you’re telling me y’all are willing to watch TEN SEASONS of a show that barely passes the bechdel test, has minimal to none poc representation, zero disabled representation, and the only gay representation you get is when the two hetero male protagonists stare at each other for 5 seconds…

yet you’re eager to shit on agent carter for only having passed three of those things on the FIRST FOUR EPISODES OF ITS ENTIRE EXISTENCE??

But…who is saying they’d rather watch Supernatural over Agent Carter?

Is there really that much overlap between the Supernatural fanbase and those calling out Agent Carter? Some, maybe, after all on one hand you have a show that started 10 years ago when the TV landscape was completely different. But as some of the fans matured and learned enough to point out where AC was lacking, they certainly understood enough to criticize Supernatural too. And the overlap isn’t really that large? Call out the base of the white men slash ships if you want, but those aren’t the WoC who’re suddenly bearing the brunt of AC’s failure.

Man, I don’t understand how it’s come to this. Like, you want people to watch a show, okay. It’s better than a lot of what’s out there, true. But it is accurate to say it’s kinda white. Now, never ever has that been the reason for a show’s failure, either in ratings or as a network project. But in an era where we have Scandal, HTGAWM, Sleepy Hollow, Elementary, and Empire, when AC is getting the relentless sexism against white women so right, it IS kind of a bizarre choice, and a hurtful one, too, right? They’re aware of the issues, it’s obvious that diversity in shows is not damaging ratings, but they go ahead with this casting? Still, it’s something we’re all used to, so while it may not be that high on our list of things to watch, most WoC not already watching were like, yeah, I’ll get to it, or nah, I personally won’t watch ‘cause of this, because I think it could have done better. There wasn’t any concerted effort to boycott or punish it in any way, only to bring attention to the fact that we wanted it to do better, when its feminist cred was touted.

Then of course the response to that, chief among them Tamora Pierce’s now infamous “blacks in service or no blacks at all“ post, which, again, wow, but her ignorance really does serve as the best example and reason for why this representation is crucial. There was a flurry of shocked replies, with whole lists of counterexamples of real life PoC in significant roles, as well as wondering for this need for attention to the hyperrealism in a show focusing on a highranking female agent whose boyfriend was injected with super serum. But suddenly, because of those posts, WoC were seen as boycotting the series, and somehow responsible for the death of female-led Marvel projects? Come on now.

lmao literally everyone who’s saying they have better shows to watch are talking about shows with diverse casts & leading ladies 

show me ONE PERSON who articulated problems with Agent Carter’s whiteness & then went on to say they’re going to watch another super-white, super-dudecentric show instead? people are scoffing because we have shows like Jane the Virgin, and Brooklyn 99, and How To Get Away With Murder; we have women of color as leading ladies! we exist in those shows, we’re not an afterthought. 

we’ve been asked to settle for AC, we’ve been asked to wait for AC. but in the current market, we don’t need to settle, and we don’t need to wait.

instead of acknowledging that diversity exists (and gets awesome ratings!), people are gonna pretend that fans of color in particular prefer white dudes to AC??? really??? that’s what we’re doing now?

black-nata:

so you’re telling me y’all are willing to watch TEN SEASONS of a show that barely passes the bechdel test, has minimal to none poc representation, zero disabled representation, and the only gay representation you get is when the two hetero male protagonists stare at each other for 5 seconds…

yet you’re eager to shit on agent carter for only having passed three of those things on the FIRST FOUR EPISODES OF ITS ENTIRE EXISTENCE??

But…who is saying they’d rather watch Supernatural over Agent Carter?

Is there really that much overlap between the Supernatural fanbase and those calling out Agent Carter? Some, maybe, after all on one hand you have a show that started 10 years ago when the TV landscape was completely different. But as some of the fans matured and learned enough to point out where AC was lacking, they certainly understood enough to criticize Supernatural too. And the overlap isn’t really that large? Call out the base of the white men slash ships if you want, but those aren’t the WoC who’re suddenly bearing the brunt of AC’s failure.

Man, I don’t understand how it’s come to this. Like, you want people to watch a show, okay. It’s better than a lot of what’s out there, true. But it is accurate to say it’s kinda white. Now, never ever has that been the reason for a show’s failure, either in ratings or as a network project. But in an era where we have Scandal, HTGAWM, Sleepy Hollow, Elementary, and Empire, when AC is getting the relentless sexism against white women so right, it IS kind of a bizarre choice, and a hurtful one, too, right? They’re aware of the issues, it’s obvious that diversity in shows is not damaging ratings, but they go ahead with this casting? Still, it’s something we’re all used to, so while it may not be that high on our list of things to watch, most WoC not already watching were like, yeah, I’ll get to it, or nah, I personally won’t watch ‘cause of this, because I think it could have done better. There wasn’t any concerted effort to boycott or punish it in any way, only to bring attention to the fact that we wanted it to do better, when its feminist cred was touted.

Then of course the response to that, chief among them Tamora Pierce’s now infamous “blacks in service or no blacks at all” post, which, again, wow, but her ignorance really does serve as the best example and reason for why this representation is crucial. There was a flurry of shocked replies, with whole lists of counterexamples of real life PoC in significant roles, as well as wondering for this need for attention to the hyperrealism in a show focusing on a highranking female agent whose boyfriend was injected with super serum. But suddenly, because of those posts, WoC were seen as boycotting the series, and somehow responsible for the death of female-led Marvel projects? Come on now.

black-nata:

so you’re telling me y’all are willing to watch TEN SEASONS of a show that barely passes the bechdel test, has minimal to none poc representation, zero disabled representation, and the only gay representation you get is when the two hetero male protagonists stare at each other for 5 seconds…

yet you’re eager to shit on agent carter for only having passed three of those things on the FIRST FOUR EPISODES OF ITS ENTIRE EXISTENCE??

But…who is saying they’d rather watch Supernatural over Agent Carter?

Is there really that much overlap between the Supernatural fanbase and those calling out Agent Carter? Some, maybe, after all on one hand you have a show that started 10 years ago when the TV landscape was completely different. But as some of the fans matured and learned enough to point out where AC was lacking, they certainly understood enough to criticize Supernatural too. And the overlap isn’t really that large? Call out the base of the white men slash ships if you want, but those aren’t the WoC who’re suddenly bearing the brunt of AC’s failure.

Man, I don’t understand how it’s come to this. Like, you want people to watch a show, okay. It’s better than a lot of what’s out there, true. But it is accurate to say it’s kinda white. Now, never ever has that been the reason for a show’s failure, either in ratings or as a network project. But in an era where we have Scandal, HTGAWM, Sleepy Hollow, Elementary, and Empire, when AC is getting the relentless sexism against white women so right, it IS kind of a bizarre choice, and a hurtful one, too, right? They’re aware of the issues, it’s obvious that diversity in shows is not damaging ratings, but they go ahead with this casting? Still, it’s something we’re all used to, so while it may not be that high on our list of things to watch, most WoC not already watching were like, yeah, I’ll get to it, or nah, I personally won’t watch ‘cause of this, because I think it could have done better. There wasn’t any concerted effort to boycott or punish it in any way, only to bring attention to the fact that we wanted it to do better, when its feminist cred was touted.

Then of course the response to that, chief among them Tamora Pierce’s now infamous “blacks in service or no blacks at all” post, which, again, wow, but her ignorance really does serve as the best example and reason for why this representation is crucial. There was a flurry of shocked replies, with whole lists of counterexamples of real life PoC in significant roles, as well as wondering for this need for attention to the hyperrealism in a show focusing on a highranking female agent whose boyfriend was injected with super serum. But suddenly, because of those posts, WoC were seen as boycotting the series, and somehow responsible for the death of female-led Marvel projects? Come on now.

feministbatwoman:

tamorapierce:

yellowis4happy:

avengeravenue:

okay. i’m not trying to be that blogger who gets angry and complains about her fandom, but for a few minutes i’m gonna be that blogger. bear with me, please? i’m really sorry.

agent carter is NOT doing well. it’s just not. we can debate about it all we want, but already

So we’re just gonna ignore how racist the show is in the name of girl power? Okay, then.

If you mean the cast is primarily white, it’s the 40s.  Which is more offensive to you: black help and blacks in service, or no blacks?  I would like to see more POC, yes, but that was the time, and I’m not sure I’d like to see more POC if they’re always going to be in service.

They were right when they said we should never meet our heroes. 

Even online. 

… wow. 

“blacks in service, or no blacks" 

Okay, first: let’s put a moratorium on white people using the term “blacks” for talking about black people. It’s dehumanizing. Full stop. 

"the cast is primarily white, it’s the 40s" 

"I would like to see more POC, yes, but that was the time" 

.. I don’t even know what to say to this. I mean, how many times have women been told about shows “the cast is primarily male, but it’s the 1940s” or “I would like to see more women, but that was the time.” 

From anyone else, these remarks would be painful, but from Tamora “I will write female knights and female soldiers in medieval settings and fuck historical accuracy” Pierce? 

(and if the excuse is “Tortall and Emelan are FANTASY worlds and Peggy Carter is in the real world”… uh, no. Peggy Carter is not in the real world. Unless someone was injected with super-soldier serum in the 1940s and I wasn’t informed)

Wow. 

What is this ridiculous (and historically inaccurate) excuse? People of color were not invented in the 1950s, as far as I know. 

karnythia already has a fantastic explanation on why character of color would be perfectly accurate on Agent Carter, and I’m just going to add a few thoughts to that. 

– Did we not notice Gabe Jones? Black soldier, member of Captain America’s commandos in Captain America: The First Avenger? 
Who, in the comics, is *romantically involved* with Peggy Carter? Now there’s a character who would be easy and interesting to have along. 

– Speaking of “blacks in service,” let’s talk about black people in military service, because while the military service may have been segregated, black men did serve. MANY black men did serve. And those men came back, after fighting for *freedom* and *justice*, to find the same old prejudice and racism and segregation – a storyline somewhat in parallel to Peggy’s, now that I think about it? 

– There were black female nurses serving in WWII 

– There were shittons of WOC who worked “men’s jobs” in army factories etc., during the war, and who, despite being dedicated and highly skilled, were turned out when “the men” returned from war – ripe ground for recruiting agents and allies

– And friends at the boarding house? 

– So maybe Peggy could discover that (white) women aren’t the *only* people who have been left by the wayside in the postwar effort? 

– And let’s talk about Japanese-Americans, while we’re at it! Who, on the west coast, have just been released from internment camps and been allowed to return to their homes/property. 

– And Japanese-American soldiers, who were drafted directly from internment camps – again, imagine a story where Peggy needs information from a japanese-american soldier, but he’s not interested in helping the US out anymore because he was *essentially forced to fight to prove his loyalty* 

–  Hey, did you know the first female millionaire was a black woman? Madam CJ Walker? And that her adopted granddaughter was still running her company in the 1940s and 50s? 

BECAUSE NOT ALL BLACK WOMEN WERE IN SERVICE? 

– Not to mention all the lawyers of color who were laying the foundation of the civil rights movement

– or the professors of color teaching at segregated colleges? 

– Puerto Rican civil rights activist and socialist Julia de Burgos was hanging around NYC around the 1940s and early 50s 

– Toni Morrison WAS TWENTY in 1951. I’m not saying put Toni Morrison in Peggy Carter, but these are the kinds of POC who are young around the 1940s and 50s – massively successful future revolutionaries. Of COURSE people like them belong on Peggy Carter. 

And maybe you’re like “oh, but the Toni Morrisons and the female millionaires and the japanese-american soldiers and the howard-university professors are the EXCEPTION” and I’m like “SO IS PEGGY CARTER.” 

This is the stuff I knew off the top of my head, with a migraine, and with a quick google search. It is not that hard to come up with hundreds of possible roles for people of color in the 1940s. And it is *necessary* to do it, obviously, because people are still spouting bullshit like “it was the times” when that is *obviously* and *demonstrably* false. 

– For fuck’s sake, if this work is about the historical oppression of women and how Peggy (and other women) worked through and around that, why is it so hard to conceive that the show could ALSO portray the historical oppression of people of color, and how people of color worked through and around that? Those could be powerfully linked themes! 

– And also: super soldier serum. There are only so many fucks I give about historical accuracy. 

Peggy Carter *could* be a show with a diverse cast. It *chooses* not to be. No historical accuracy police is stopping them from casting Gabe Jones and Peggy’s brown roommate. And that Tamora Piece is defending their decision with language like that – 

I guess solidarity really is for white women. 

feministbatwoman:

tamorapierce:

yellowis4happy:

avengeravenue:

okay. i’m not trying to be that blogger who gets angry and complains about her fandom, but for a few minutes i’m gonna be that blogger. bear with me, please? i’m really sorry.

agent carter is NOT doing well. it’s just not. we can debate about it all we want, but already

So we’re just gonna ignore how racist the show is in the name of girl power? Okay, then.

If you mean the cast is primarily white, it’s the 40s.  Which is more offensive to you: black help and blacks in service, or no blacks?  I would like to see more POC, yes, but that was the time, and I’m not sure I’d like to see more POC if they’re always going to be in service.

They were right when they said we should never meet our heroes. 

Even online. 

… wow. 

“blacks in service, or no blacks" 

Okay, first: let’s put a moratorium on white people using the term “blacks” for talking about black people. It’s dehumanizing. Full stop. 

"the cast is primarily white, it’s the 40s" 

"I would like to see more POC, yes, but that was the time" 

.. I don’t even know what to say to this. I mean, how many times have women been told about shows “the cast is primarily male, but it’s the 1940s” or “I would like to see more women, but that was the time.” 

From anyone else, these remarks would be painful, but from Tamora “I will write female knights and female soldiers in medieval settings and fuck historical accuracy” Pierce? 

(and if the excuse is “Tortall and Emelan are FANTASY worlds and Peggy Carter is in the real world”… uh, no. Peggy Carter is not in the real world. Unless someone was injected with super-soldier serum in the 1940s and I wasn’t informed)

Wow. 

What is this ridiculous (and historically inaccurate) excuse? People of color were not invented in the 1950s, as far as I know. 

karnythia already has a fantastic explanation on why character of color would be perfectly accurate on Agent Carter, and I’m just going to add a few thoughts to that. 

– Did we not notice Gabe Jones? Black soldier, member of Captain America’s commandos in Captain America: The First Avenger? 
Who, in the comics, is *romantically involved* with Peggy Carter? Now there’s a character who would be easy and interesting to have along. 

– Speaking of “blacks in service,” let’s talk about black people in military service, because while the military service may have been segregated, black men did serve. MANY black men did serve. And those men came back, after fighting for *freedom* and *justice*, to find the same old prejudice and racism and segregation – a storyline somewhat in parallel to Peggy’s, now that I think about it? 

– There were black female nurses serving in WWII 

– There were shittons of WOC who worked “men’s jobs” in army factories etc., during the war, and who, despite being dedicated and highly skilled, were turned out when “the men” returned from war – ripe ground for recruiting agents and allies

– And friends at the boarding house? 

– So maybe Peggy could discover that (white) women aren’t the *only* people who have been left by the wayside in the postwar effort? 

– And let’s talk about Japanese-Americans, while we’re at it! Who, on the west coast, have just been released from internment camps and been allowed to return to their homes/property. 

– And Japanese-American soldiers, who were drafted directly from internment camps – again, imagine a story where Peggy needs information from a japanese-american soldier, but he’s not interested in helping the US out anymore because he was *essentially forced to fight to prove his loyalty* 

–  Hey, did you know the first female millionaire was a black woman? Madam CJ Walker? And that her adopted granddaughter was still running her company in the 1940s and 50s? 

BECAUSE NOT ALL BLACK WOMEN WERE IN SERVICE? 

– Not to mention all the lawyers of color who were laying the foundation of the civil rights movement

– or the professors of color teaching at segregated colleges? 

– Puerto Rican civil rights activist and socialist Julia de Burgos was hanging around NYC around the 1940s and early 50s 

– Toni Morrison WAS TWENTY in 1951. I’m not saying put Toni Morrison in Peggy Carter, but these are the kinds of POC who are young around the 1940s and 50s – massively successful future revolutionaries. Of COURSE people like them belong on Peggy Carter. 

And maybe you’re like “oh, but the Toni Morrisons and the female millionaires and the japanese-american soldiers and the howard-university professors are the EXCEPTION” and I’m like “SO IS PEGGY CARTER.” 

This is the stuff I knew off the top of my head, with a migraine, and with a quick google search. It is not that hard to come up with hundreds of possible roles for people of color in the 1940s. And it is *necessary* to do it, obviously, because people are still spouting bullshit like “it was the times” when that is *obviously* and *demonstrably* false. 

– For fuck’s sake, if this work is about the historical oppression of women and how Peggy (and other women) worked through and around that, why is it so hard to conceive that the show could ALSO portray the historical oppression of people of color, and how people of color worked through and around that? Those could be powerfully linked themes! 

– And also: super soldier serum. There are only so many fucks I give about historical accuracy. 

Peggy Carter *could* be a show with a diverse cast. It *chooses* not to be. No historical accuracy police is stopping them from casting Gabe Jones and Peggy’s brown roommate. And that Tamora Piece is defending their decision with language like that – 

I guess solidarity really is for white women.