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The thing is Juliantina has been all tropes this entire time. The ‘meet cute’ & ‘friends to lovers’ & ‘drunken almost-kiss’ & ‘stunned by a dress’ & ‘parental disapproval’ & ‘sleeps with someone else after a breakup.’ We’ve seen this with m/f couples a thousand times. But never with f/f couples which is what made this seem so new and romantic and special. Except unfortunately we do know the ‘sleeps with someone else’ trope far too well, which is why it hit so bad. But the writing hasn’t changed.

I was talking about Juliantina a little while back with a friend and she was like, this isn’t f/f TV tropes, this is fanfic tropes, and that really did apply. They got all these cute and romantic tropes that, yeah, usually apply to m/f couples, but the way it was one after the other and the way they mostly avoided so many bad tropes just sucked us right in. Val decided to break up with Lucho, so she did. She decided to come out (to Guille), she did, he was great about it. She asked Juls about Jacobo, they talked it out. They broke up, they still were in each other’s orbit and clearly still in love. I think last week’s really great treatment of them had a lot of us lowering our guards.

But maybe you’re right, like, there was cheating, on Lucho, for a bit. That’s not a positive trope. Being outed, homophobic bullying, parental disapproval, these aren’t positive tropes. This one is just one of our big…three? that we hate. We can excuse a lot of things, especially when it furthers their love and puts them together to fight an external force, but this is not only a bad trope with respect to any romance, it comes with considerable baggage for f/f ships. 

We talked so much about how they managed to do all the good parts, I guess it really was by chance, or a different approach than we think, anyway. They were careful about it, I think, about how they chose to go about it, and they’re probably right in that their target audience will still continue to root for them even with this trope, it’s just another very normal telenovela romance trope. We just have a very specific experience and background with it.

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Hey are you ok? Did you take a step back? Is ok if you have to. I mean I get if people need to take some time for a while. I just miss your posts and I want to know how are you feeling with all of this

Aw, thanks for looking in, Wednesday’s my busy day at work so I just didn’t have the time to go through everything. 

Personally, I’m going to see what happens now. I’ve been going back and forth, not about Juls, but how I feel about it happening at all. I’ve been seeing some really negative reactions (not here) so kind of trying to wrap my head around that. I’ll probably become clearer on how I feel as I work my way through these asks.

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Chipmunk looking Sergio is just as bad as Lucho but in different ways. I knew I was justified in hating his ass

We were right to hate him all along.

And another anon:

I am so grateful to the tweet I saw w that spoiler a couple days ago Bc I had a visceral reaction to reading it, so I’m glad I had a couple days to process and decide not to watch til further notice. I think that warning allowed me to save some goodwill towards what we already had going for Juliantina so far. I gotta say tho, I am so fucking tired of f/f ships and lesbians/queer women being used to teach the heteros a lesson about not being homophobic pricks. It’s a slap in the face every time.

Good and prescient decision to listen to what everyone else considered a troll, lol. And that last one is a super fair point, buddy. One can argue the importance of teaching lessons, but goddamn, let us live.

Though, I guess on the other hand, if you’re not looking at it from a lesson point of view at all, what the repercussions are, it’s just a dumb jealousy and kinda cheating plot like the hets in telenovelas already get. If anything, they were a lot softer with this ship for a lot longer than we’d expected. And that’s how they got us.

And another anon:

As much as I hated it happened I’m just grateful we didn’t see anything and there was not a trace of doubt after it. Not trying to be nice, not anything. We got the least of evils we all know this could’ve so much more wrong than this. I’m emotionally drained for the night tho

Ah, I mean, yeah, I thought it was clear how much she hated it but well, that’s a low bar, huh. I still don’t think it was needed, but I do understand that aside from possibly teaching a lesson, it’s literally just drama for the sake of it. They had a good run without it but I guess they had to fall. I’m exhausted too, and we’re only on Tuesday.

And another anon:

On one of Maca’s and Barb’s videos today someone translated it and there was something where Maca said Val caught Juls with Sergio, but on the show, she didn’t catch them. Do you think that was a scene they filmed but didn’t go with, or do you think the translation was wrong or were Maca and Barb just bullshitting with us.

I think they were joking, that’s all. Any kind of deleted scene wouldn’t have fit in, since Val was still trying to reach her while Juls was kidnapped.

And another anon:

SPOILER that episode was too real… Not the kidnapping part (?) but the pressuring to do something…. God dammit so many things wrong this episode! (also Barbara acting tho)

Heh, thanks for the spoiler tag. Ugh, yeah, she looked so broken. Barbara was great, for real. You could tell how much it was all killing Juls.

And another anon:

Add something more why juliana doesn’t believe she is good for Val. My poor baby has to deal with all that; and then this?

Oof, yes, right? Her first thought was of Val. Man, that kid is going through it.

And another anon:

The thing that tears me up inside is knowing that apparently Juls cries about it right after?! Like, my poor poor baby… uggggh. She needs such a giant hug. Also, I will actually be pissed if their scene is more racy/revealing than the shower scene. That would be fucked up.

Right, what’s confusing me a lot about the reactions is she’s quite clearly the one who’s suffering the most here. Before she does it, the amount of confusion and self-loathing and doubt that brings her to this place, then during, then after? I don’t understand why people are mad at her when she’s madder at herself than we could ever be! 

The show is not being vague or ambiguous about this. She feels like crap, she’s drinking, sleeping with a guy she’s visibly shown disgust for, and she’s crying like, through most of those scenes. We don’t need to see her internal processes or perspective more than that, that is all very, very clear in what we’re getting.

Like, maybe some of us do need this lesson, not just freaking straight homophobes in Mexico, but some of us for why somebody would do this. As if she should be blamed for this. For not listening to Val or giving her that chance to explain, for being too stubborn, sure, she should have listened. But if you can’t even grant the empathy to feel for her when she’s doing this, I don’t really what you’re doing watching a TV show that spells things out for you really clearly.

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Even after juls sleeping with S i applaud the writers. When taking a step back this show is breaking ground on a w|w and guaranteed a lot of straights backing lupe. Not only do they see first hand how fucked up there words are but also pressuring/questioning someone sexuality and how they feel afterwards. As much as I hate the trope I actually understand this and applaud the writers for taking it this deep and hoping the homophobic parents are watching.

I will say it was freaking tough to watch Juls like that. 

But also? Wtf was up with how it happened? Sergio plying her with drink, she’s literally wiping tears and forcing herself and he’s all jovial about it? 

And another anon:

Is it just me or it was f*cking rape??? Or at least emotional abuse I thought it was going to hurt but now I’m MAD

I don’t know if we can extrapolate lack of consent, but it was pretty freaking gross and I actually hate that while the f/f story choices are supposed to have some kind of message (whether they hit or not), his and Lucho’s actions repeatedly get excused or pushed aside.

And another anon:

That was assault, Juls was drunk not in her right faculties and he was sober because he is used to drinkin and has tolerance, it’s assault. Lucho did the same with Val. Im lost for words here

I don’t know what it was but let me just say, if that was on an episode of ODAAT (which it wouldn’t be, it’d be too dark for them to show on screen), they would be discussing it in very different terms.

And another anon:

Wow talk about taking advantage of a situation. Sergio knows juliana doesn’t like to drink, so he gives her alcohol. He knows shes in love with valentina but still pursues her. I thought he was starting to get better but this is real low. Juliana is super vulnerable right now and he starts pulling some shit? Fuck that

Yeah, there’s nothing about it that wasn’t creepy and disgusting and behavior that should be called out and certainly not forgiven! She’s an 18 year old who hates to drink, how much of a lightweight and under the influence would she have been? It was her choice to drink, sure, but anybody who wasn’t a creep wouldn’t have considered her advances.

Is the show just…not going to address that? Does it think that this is somehow Juls making this decision and then regretting it and that’s that? 

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To the anons saying they might need a break from Juliantina during all of this my advice is to take it. I love them but i had to take a few days off after the breakup becuase the compounding of the bullying, Lucho’s violent outburts and Eva’s reaction,which was unfortunately way to close to how i think my sister will react(blaming it on grief and threatening conversion therapy), was too much and now im back. Im glad im back &that i took the break. Know your limits and dont be ashamed of that

That’s great advice, anon. There’s no need to stick to this, no need to drop it completely and cancel out the enjoyment you got from it before. Just back away if you’re feeling unsure, or you know, just don’t feel forced to sit through it or let some morbid curiosity sucker you in when you’re actually feeling really bad about it. 

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Can I just say you answer all of your asks with such care and detail. You can really tell you genuinely care about everyone, and it’s so sweet to see because I’ve followed a lot of accounts that are the exact opposite. Since finding your account you’ve always made me smile with your posts everyday so thank you.

Can I just say that I literally burst into tears at this ask? Thank you so much for sending it.

It’s been a weird day. I really didn’t expect this to happen and I’m unhappy too, both for the story and the fans, I don’t want this shattered, unhappy fandom and people feeling invalidated and like they don’t matter. But I’m trying to be positive, what else can you do, right?

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Shit, I was away the whole day and came back to find the house on fire! Do you know if it’s true that Juls sleeps with Sergio? If it is, well damn, I wasn’t expecting this to go so wrong =/

Yeah, buddy. I’m sorry, it’s definitely a punch in the gut when you first find out. It sucks that we let ourselves believe they wouldn’t go to this place after the way they handled earlier Sergio scenes, but here we are. I’m seeing some people treat it as just a (really) crappy low in their story, maybe that’s the way to approach it, I dunno. I’ve come to terms with it but it’s obviously understandable if people bail.

And another anon:

What twittter account is telling y’all this info??

https://twitter.com/JuliantinaFans

And another anon:

It’s just disappointing. I just thought that her love for Valentina is stronger than any of her confusion or curiosity.

It’s not really about that, that’s not where her mind is, she’s not saying, is it Val or is it this. It’s not even, Val or my mom. They probably wrote the dumbass jealousy plot to set this up, where she doesn’t really think she has Val either. 

And I do get what you mean, she doesn’t have to have Val to say, no, I don’t want to sleep with anyone else, but I think there’s soulful meaningful sex and then there’s whatever this will be, a physical act that she’ll hate.

And another anon:

Add to the list of things I wasn’t fully aware of until I thought about them: Juls is American. She was born and raised in Texas. She’s American. I just….. 

*nods* This is totally the wrong time for it but @dealanexmachina was floating a The Proposal AU or even just a typical green card marriage AU, lol.

And another anon:

Is Juls really going to sleep with Sergio? I know it’s just fiction and whatever but if it’s true this genuinely hurts, for the first time there was a character who didn’t need to “try it with a guy” to know she is a lesbian…I feel alone again 🙁

I’m so sorry, anon. It happens way too often for us. Of course it may not be the first time but it’s so rare that we get a girl who actually realizes her sexuality on screen and goes through it all in front of us.

But it happens to us so often because we’ve seen so many of these stories. This is literally a first time character in a whole different set of ways. And hopefully, at least in telenovelas, this will create more characters (and even perhaps people in situations in real life) who don’t have to either. The lesson Juls will learn here is one you already know, you’re not that dissimilar, you’re just a step ahead. You’’re lucky that you didn’t have to go through what she does. This is not at all going to be something that people will be encouraged to do. 

And another anon:

Sigh. This situation is showing that some fandoms can’t handle situations. Like this is bad; but it some kind of real shit and Juliantina is more real than everything? We don’t know if is gonna make it the cut. I’m feeling worst because of how people reacted than for the spoiler itself.

Ah, I don’t really blame it on this particular fandom, I think it’s an overlapping fandom and it’s pretty shocking news at this point in the story. Honestly, this happened at exactly the wrong time, right after we’d finally started to think maybe it’d go okay, after all the pitfalls they’d avoided before. I do think it’s important to note not only that the audience for this is different, but we the fandom are at quite a different level. They’re basically creating 101 stuff for a 101 audience while the fandom is at 330 level courses. 

I do get what you mean, I’m also the type of person who is very easily influenced by what others think, and I’d really loved the part of this fandom experience that was a lot of happy, cheerful fans. But there’s nothing to do but get through this now. I see a fair number of people on Tumblr being chill about it, maybe stick to them?

And another anon:

but my gold-star-lesbian broody child with a soft spot for the cheerful heiress with pretty eyes 🙁 it’s just such a good thing, i dont want it to end

Anon! You know that’s a terrible way to look at people! It doesn’t make lesbians less to be not gold stars, my gosh. And as one myself, I can assure you it is a matter of luck and nothing else. I’m a Muslim who grew up in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, I trust you won’t find my situation easy enough for me to say this lightly. It wasn’t because of strength of mental fortitude or being a real lesbian that made me not do it. Being in the right environment, being able to withstand certain pressures at the right moments, that’s literally all that ends up mattering. Anon! And this doesn’t change the story one bit. Juls loves Val and she will continue to do so. All those great moments don’t disappear with this.

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1/? ok, this ask might be a tad bit long, but bare with me: you probably get a lot of asks right now about the whole sergio/juliana thing, but I just wanted to share my story so people might understand juls a bit more? it seems like a lot of people in the fandom are mad about it (though I do understand the reaction, I understand Juls as well). the first time I thought about the posibility about liking girls I was 17. I had been with a couple of guys, never sexually, but still..

2/? and I was wondering why I never would develop feelings for them. that was when I first started questioning my sexuality. I was confused and I wasn’t really sure of my feelings because I had never been with a girl either. I get the whole «you don’t have to sleep with a guy to know you like girls», but honestly I had no clue about what I was feeling. I was 17, and I didn’t have any gay friends or didn’t know any gay people so of course it was hard for me to know what I was feeling.

3/? I was 17, and I didn’t have any gay friends or didn’t know any gay people so of course it was hard for me to know what I was feeling. could it be that I hadn’t meet the right guy, could it be that I was in fact into girls? those two questions haunted me every single day, and I guess not having anyone who was gay around made things much harder to understand.

4/? The first time I ever got butterflies in my stomach was in fact with a girl a year later. She was four years older than me and from common friends I knew she had more experience with both guys and girls than me who was still a virgin at 18. I was nervous about her judging me for being a virgin (I know it sounds silly), but coming from a 18 year old who was very confused – is not in fact silly at all.

5/?: We started talking and hanging out a lot and every day I got more and more nervous about her having a lot of experience, versus me who didn’t. Then I got drunk one night and had sex with a guy. I knew immediately that it was a mistake and trust me if I could go back I would never do it again. But honestly, I get Juls situation. She is what, 18 years old? experiencing love for the first time and being told how wrong it is, that is not exactly easy dealing with.

6/?: And then when she in fact visit Val who is said girl she is in love with hugging and crying with her ex boyfriend? Like how bad wouldn’t that make anybody feel. I say it is a perfectly normal reaction to anybody that age who is not sure of their sexual orientation to experience with a guy as well.

7/7: Though I am a bit mad about the timing and her doing it before giving Val a chance to explain, I do get her reaction as well. She is allowed to outrage when seeing someone she loves in the arms of someone else. Honestly I think I would have done the exact same thing given the circumstances.

Thanks for sharing that, anon, I think there are people who do kind of do understand that this happens, for you, for many other young gays, but not how. So this was enlightening, because for a lot of us, there wasn’t the same pressure and confusion, so it’s difficult to process how it could lead to that. But I think, in the abstract, we can all understand how socialization, especially of younger girls, especially in certain environments, can lead to that.

I think what some fans are having trouble with is, for one thing, this being written into a fictional show, it’s their choice to go there, not the frankly…unhappy way of how it happens in real life? And yes, while we are dealing with a world that’s very messy, kidnappings and affairs and cheating, oh my, Juliantina, as we said repeatedly, seemed isolated from that, in this wonderful bubble of being well written and soft and not misunderstanding things and doing outrageous things because of that and basically free from a lot of tropes we hated.

We let ourselves lower our guard enough to think maybe, in avoiding all the easy ways it could have gone there before, it would keep doing that. Add to that the fact that Juls (and Val) have been written as strong in the face of homophobia so far, it seems so counter intuitive for Juls to bow to it now. And their love has been shown to be so strong that it’s overcome so much, and now this feels like a blow.

I really wish they hadn’t done it, it’s so messy and it’s a trope we hate for a reason, buuuut I also do see the other side of things. 

As much as I do hate the involvement of men in f/f stories, I do think that the way they’re writing this is informative for the audience in mind. They’re not showing that lesbians can sleep with men, they’re saying Lupe’s arguments are wrong and lead to heartbreak. Lupe’s arguments that I’m sure a lot of viewers share. That isn’t even just in Mexico or other countries with emerging LGBT awareness, that’s something a lot of morons in a lot of places think. 

Which makes it suck that Juls bowed to it, no doubt, but better a fictional character than a real person. And I do agree with you, Anon, that her circumstances are particularly terrible and make her vulnerable. People have not been able to see Juls’s perspective at a lot of different points when I think the writing has mostly clearly telegraphed it. 

She’s not going to enjoy it, she’s seeing it as a mechanical effort and will always be in love with Val, thinking she’s out of her reach. It’s just one part of a long story, which has mostly been very great so far.